167 Comments
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Jan 9
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Nicholas Behm's avatar

This potential action is even more ominous within the context of MAGA pedofuhrer, Miller, and their goons threatening to denaturalize citizens and use Social Security and tax information to find immigrants with some form of legal status.

All of this parallels 1930s NAZI Germany, and as a scholar of the Holocaust and NAZI propaganda, I don't claim that gratuitously.

Lisa Iannucci's avatar

Well the good news is they don't have enough people to do that. What is truly concerning is the ability to monitor our smartphones by geographic radius. THAT is terrifying. https://www.404media.co/inside-ices-tool-to-monitor-phones-in-entire-neighborhoods/

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Jan 9
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Simon Rosenberg's avatar

Pam, please take these posts down. Not sure of their utility other than to scare people.

Pamela Frazier's avatar

Roger that, no worries.

Pamela Frazier's avatar

The ones about the advanced surveillance technology, right? Or also the ones about door-to-door?

FWIW I doubt if Pegasus is in widespread use but stingray has been used at protests in blue cities recently I believe.

Pamela Frazier's avatar

You can just delete whichever ones are a problem in your view. I’m not sure if me talking about Vance saying ICE was or will be going door-to-door is the problem. It’s a long thread.

Pamela Frazier's avatar

I don’t see further direction from you so I’ll just delete the entire thread, which started with me asking if anyone else has any insight about Vance taking about ICE going door-to-door. The rest was just sharing information about the surveillance technology that exists. I’m sorry to have caused problems again. Twice in less than a week. 😔

Lyn Gerry's avatar

I heard about it too and am outraged. The bottom line for me is not making people scared. The bottom line is that the effort to stop funding for ICE is all the more important

SW's avatar

just heard some passing comment about it's unconstitutional

Pamela Frazier's avatar

The simple rule is that door-to-door searches would be unconstitutional, yes. The details could get complex but the general rule is yes- unconstitutional.

Pamela Frazier's avatar

Same with the advanced surveillance technology that grabs data off phones- broad warrantless deployment is unconstitutional.

Pamela Frazier's avatar

If there’s some set of rules we’re supposed to be following it may help if we know what they are, because getting called out in front of the class unexpectedly really sucks. I always try to focus on action items and to be respectful to everyone and deferential to you.

SW's avatar

Please don't take it that way. It's not a rule, just Simon's assessment that the situation is alarming - my interpretation - should be addressed in the training sessions before events as I think it is. - i.e., can't be covered in appropriate depth in comments for ppl who haven't followed it, they need the opportunuty to ask questions, etc. and fill out the picture of how to aproach it in these times. that's my interpretation of Simon asking you to take the comments down.

Pamela Frazier's avatar

That is insightful, thank you. It’s been a rough day. <>

Lyn Gerry's avatar

The interview with Vance suggested that the influx of funds from the Ugly Bill would enable hiring enough personnel for this. I'm with Nicholas. It is critical to claw back that funding.

Lisa Iannucci's avatar

Not disagreeing. I just said it’s not doable right now.

David Lehnherr's avatar

Guess there are no limits on trump's global power, since he has no morality.

Deborah Potter's avatar

and has lost his own mind

Jayne M's avatar

@Simon: Good Morning. Well done on CNN, and great points made in your written notes today. Under 2) at the top of the page I think you meant to say, " . . .that he does NOT believe himself or his regime to be bound . . "

JCOK's avatar
Jan 9Edited

The fact that Jesse Ventura came out so strongly against the administration is a big deal — a very big deal. Yes, he’s a strange and mercurial figure, but opposition from people like him — people outside traditional political parties or movements— is exactly what’s needed to puncture the MAGA cult.

The cult will break when more like him go public.

Steve Adams's avatar

Rogan's been moving away too.

JCOK's avatar

My issue with him is that he has historically reverted back to Trump and he continues to surround himself with CT enthusiasts and nut-jobs. He’s essentially a mindless provocateur for the right-wing at this point and they fully expect him to be “all over the place”.

Would love it if he landed on principles that caused him to be firmly opposed this criminal administration, but I seriously doubt that happens.

Steve Adams's avatar

Hey I've got issues with him too. But he's behaving differently than he was before the election. It's a shift, and I'll take a shift.

Lyn Gerry's avatar

Excuse my ignorance - what is CT?

Karin Stern's avatar

Conspiracy theorists

Patrick's avatar

Jesse Ventura is not all that hard to understand. He is not stupid and he's not ideological, and he has the potential to reach a lot of more MAGA aligned people.

What he is is someone whose mind moves sort of in a slow, ponderous way, often he can go awry, but what you can say for him, and totally in his credit, is he thinks for himself and tries to do and stand for what he perceives as right. He can be conspiratorial, but he gets there all by himself.

He was also the Governor of Minnesota, and he wasn't a big success at it but he also wasn't a big failure.

He also is a real Minnesotan. He was in our collective consciousness back in the late 1970's when he was a wrestler.

Bruce - Thinking Deeply's avatar

Thank you for great advice and encouragement.

John K's avatar

I do not trust the latest jobs data. Trump has his minions cooking the books.

John's avatar

So here's one thing I'm wondering about, in terms of political actions. Every protest I have been to in the past year -- and I've been to a few -- has had police there as observers. They've all been peaceful protests -- mostly folks waving cardboard signs. Yet invariably, we have 4 - 5 police cruisers around. Why aren't there any local police observers for ICE actions? I get that, unlike us, ICE doesn't have to register their action in advance. Still, almost invariably the actions take more than enough time for a squad car to arrive from the local PD. Why aren't they there? Obviously, traditionally law enforcement officers presume the good faith of other branches of law enforcement. But that's been ruptured. ICE shot a woman in Minneapolis and won't even share the criminal evidence with local PD. So why don't we insist that local police observe these actions? Why can't we call them to show up? I also recognize there is some risk of turning a volatile situation more volatile. I'm not sure local police should try to challenge ICE officers. That could lead to Insurrection Act provoking events. But at least to be there to say somebody on authority has their eyes on this. Not everything should be left to citizens with their smartphones.

John's avatar

I also should add that I'm very aware that many local police (and in particular police unions) are Trump-aligned. So they may well be joining in on the wrong side. That said, there are plenty of decent police who want to protect their communities and we should create a structure for them to help do so.

Michael G Baer's avatar

I've been at protests or also seen some local police occasionally in the community and I go up and talk to them about ICE, about 4th and 5th amendments against illegal search and seizure and the right of due process and about their oath to the constitution. I mention that the bill of rights applies to everyone, not just citizens. I suggest they have a responsibility to "protect and serve" the public, which many have written on their police cars.

It's not enough to avoid assisting ICE, the consitution compels them to intervene. Mostly their response is that is for the lawyers and justices and police chiefs to figure out, it's a decision above their paygrade and they want to keep their job.

I still feel it's important to have these conversations, I always start with "Thank you for your service, and willingness to be in harm's way to protect the community to keep us safe and peaceful." It's a good ice-breaker so they know where I'm coming from.

I have only had a handful of these conversations, but I am on the lookout for further opportunities.

John's avatar

> Mostly their response is that is for the lawyers and justices and police chiefs to figure out, it's a decision above their paygrade and they want to keep their job.

Exactly: and I think it's time for us to ask all those responsible people to "figure it out." Right now, we're in this kind of gray area, where people are still stunned by the fact that ICE is trying to suspend the constitution and regular order. As we exit that fog, we need guidelines and practices that have local police able to observe (and engage, as advised) ICE actions, 'to protect and serve' the communities they represent.

Lisa Iannucci's avatar

Yes! Contact AG's office in your state!

John's avatar

So on this: I heard an interesting interview with Minneapolis mayor J. Frey today. In it, he stated directly: theoretically, the MPD could arrest / intervene in ICE actions, but practically, they are not going to, because of the potential for a shootout. It was very stark. He emphasized that there are twice as many ICE agents deployed there as there are Minneapolis-St. Paul police officers. So there you have it: the threat of violence is shaping law enforcement (just as, we have heard, many in Congress are acting in fear of violence against themselves). That said, this makes the case for mass mobilization stronger. And at the same time, I'm still not quite satisfied with this posture: recognizing that police are outgunned, it seems like we should still, as an adjunct to mass politics, insist they make themselves visible as observers (in groups, so they can't be picked off one by one).

Anne Hoke's avatar

Self report - both Republican Senator offices have not answered the phone all week, plus voice mail was full on one day. Office of Democratic Rep answering the phone when I can get through. Twice this week all lines were busy so couldn't get through. Complained about Venezuela invasion, ICE lawlessness, and stone-walling of Epstein files.

Martha Joan's avatar

How do you register for Stuart Stevens?

Jayne M's avatar

Near the top under point 3, Simon mentions his upcoming talk with Stuart Stevens and the word "here" is hyperlinked (in blue) so you can click it and it should take you to their talk.

Martha Joan's avatar

Thank you. I figured it out and was able to watch.

Joanne Oyer's avatar

Nice alliteration, Simon.

Ted N's avatar

Proud, plucky patriots!

Love alliteration!

Jo Burns's avatar

Yes, you could have knocked me over with a downy feather when I found out my 'ahem' Senator, Todd Young, voted for The War Powers Resolution. He's not known for having a spine nor testicle. Sadly, Jim Banks, is still in intensive care searching for a spinal transplant. And, Rep. Mark Messmer never fails to disappoint with his TDS2 give me another whack syndrome.

Michael Nugent's avatar

Yes, and let's remember to celebrate every win and thank Republicans when they do the right thing! All my Hoosier friends are calling this week Young to do so.

Jo Burns's avatar

I did call this a.m. to thank him.

Veronica's avatar

Yeah. My own representative, Monica de la Cruz (15-TX), actually voted FOR extending the ACA tax subsidies for 3 years. Amazing. In my daily call, I thanked her for the vote.

So the calls ARE working. . . 🙂👍🏼

Susan Dieterlen's avatar

Young startled me, too.

LParker's avatar

Self reporting: It's pay day, so I made my first ever quarterly donations to Hopium's "Winning The House", "Winning Ohio" and "Audacious Expansion Fund" campaigns. I have also passed on 3 of my free trial subscriptions to 3 like-minded friends. Since it's hard to make calls to Congressional representatives while I am at work, I'm sending e-mails and will leave voicemails after work, in which I will call out the lawlessness of this nightmare of an Administration and encourage my elected representatives to continue to pressure any remotely sane Republican colleagues to uphold their patriotic duty to the Constitution, Democracy and the rule of the law and to roll back tariffs, protect healthcare/science/public health/education, and stand with Ukraine. I will also take time this weekend to explore postcard-sending organizations.

Ballard Graham's avatar

It’s been way pass time for our elected representatives to assert their Constitution authorities against this tyrant felon in our WH! He’s a person sitting I. Our house (WH) with all the characteristics of a criminal gangster, mob boss! Pushing his lawless Will on our elected representatives through threats and intimidation! We all must stand up and fight this felon with every ounce of our intestinal fortitude every single day that he soils our country!

Jayne M's avatar

Called and emailed my 2 GA DEM Senators a few minutes ago and told them NOW is the time to get LOUD and educate their constituency about Trump's escalating authoritarianism as they continue to also focus on kitchen table issues, despite their consultants saying talking about democracy is not a winning/popular issue. Reminded them (using points from Simon's Wed evening talk) that state DEMS in TX, CA, IL have focused on both kitchen table issues and Trump's power grab successfully, so now it's time for D.C. DEMS to do the same. If the consultants disagree, fire them. If DEM leadership disagrees, replace them.

Lisa Iannucci's avatar

Good job, excellent message! Thanks!

Jayne M's avatar

Thank you very much. I actually emailed a short essay to my 2 Senators with more detail.

ArcticStones's avatar

Today the Washington Post has a horrible op-ed attacking Jack Smith. It’s titled: "Jack Smith would have blown a hole in the First Amendment"

(Imho, not worth linking to.)

Here is my comment, carefully worded to bypass WaPo’s censor algorithm:

"It’s embarrassing to watch how WaPo’s Editorial Board (who insist on being anonymous!) continues to bend low, carrying the water that Donald Trump has personally passed. Shame!"

John Payne's avatar

Brilliantly worded comment. I had to read it twice but I’m only on my first cup of coffee.

MrsCQ's avatar

That is why I refuse to even read a WA Post gifted article bc they require registration. Cancelled my subscription last year and I keep getting emails from them to subscribe again. Nope. I don't care how low their subscription price keeps dropping for me.

ArcticStones's avatar

I hear you!

I cancelled my subscription, but must admit I was tempted to sign up again when their third offer was $ 0.99 per month. There still are some journalists and some articles that I find worth reading – and I continue to write comments attacking Bezos, editorial practices, and their feckless Editorial Board. Personally I think this latter option is worth the 99 cents. :)

That said, I thought it absolutely outrageous when I first heard that one of my gift articles required that the recipient "register". Totally unacceptable!

MrsCQ's avatar
Jan 9Edited

I've gotten those offers as well! LOL. I know there is the school of thought that you don't punish good artists, writers, news anchors for the sins of their name change (ahem Kennedy Center) or bosses. But, I am of the school thought, if not when I have a strong belief in something, then when? I canceled my Hulu subscription over Jimmy Kimmel and was shocked at how quickly they had Jimmy back on the air. The power of the purse is the only thing these oligarchs care about. Doesn't work often, but when it does, ohhhhh the satisfaction one feels that we do matter, is incredibly satisfying. Everyone contributes and takes their stands in their own way. My way is not better or worse than anyone who chooses to continue to subscribe. I really liked reading Jonathan Capehart, E.J. Dionne over the years. I don't think E.J. Dionne is still there. AND, I feel no guilt in reading what others summarize about an article they have read. So, there is that! Thank you for letting us know what the WA Post Editorial Board wrote.

Eileen's avatar

Not saying no one should subscribe at the give-away rates, just know that you're included in their circulation numbers which are important to advertisers. I feel bad for the good journalists who are still there.

ArcticStones's avatar

You make a very important point.

Susan Dieterlen's avatar

Nicely done with the comment!

Besos' Wapo requires everyone to register to read gift articles because Besos, like all the big trumpy tech billionaires, is in the business of stealing and selling our data.

Lisa Iannucci's avatar

100%. Be very careful w your data, esp. since ICE now has tech to monitor your phone activity by zip code/geo area. Pretty scary stuff.

Susan Dieterlen's avatar

Can't resist dropping in a link and a plug for Electronic Frontiers Foundation here, the best resource out there for educating yourself about protecting your data

https://www.eff.org/pages/surveillance-self-defense

Ted N's avatar

“Carrying the water he has personally passed…..”

Strong words, wow

Deborah Potter's avatar

Thanks for the inspiration. I had to work on my comment several times to get past the censor. "The anonymous WaPo Editorial Board does not represent the sentiments or interpretations of We the People! Jack Smith is a hero. The Saboteur is a disgrace."

ArcticStones's avatar

Excellent! Yeah, getting past that machine censor can be a real challenge. I have experienced slipping something past them, only to have it removed later, possibly after complaints by one of the right-wing trolls that frequent WaPo.

David Salzillo's avatar

Amen to that. I saw the headline, and that was disgraceful.

Cynthia Erb's avatar

Last night I wept as I read Amanda Gorman’s poem for Renee Good. But I woke up today with some optimism. The CNN clip is great. I’m a little surprised the Republican strategist was largely agreeing with Simon. I’ve known Hawley is desperate to run for president for some time. It’s still kind of amazing seeing him vote with Democrats. Elliott Morris at Strength in Numbers had a really good essay today about how public opinion has dramatically turned against ICE over the past year. And polls made after the murder in Minneapolis haven’t come out yet. This has been a kind of terrifying week, so I’m surprised as it ends I feel a glimmer of optimism.

Lisa Iannucci's avatar

Can you share the poem? I did not know about it.