Sorry, I am taking this post down. Anything that starts with "too late for the Democrats" isn't welcome here. Feel free to repost with a more constructive intro please.
Simon, thank you for last night’s subscribers’ gathering. I strongly encourage everybody to take the time to watch the video of this meeting, which was substantive, candid and excellent!
I agree. I know this is a political group, but there are some very interesting things happening around the edges. One excellent resource is a British quarterly, The Resurgence and the Ecologist. Their articles are short and focus on the environment from a range of perspectives, including science, art, and poetry. They have very interesting book reviews. I just finished a book they reviewed called We Will Be Jaguars, A Memoir of My People, by Nemonte Nenquimo and Mitch Anderson. I couldn't put it down.
In these dark times, we surely need good news. Here are 86 great things that have happened. These stories deserved far bigger headlines. Someone else posted this link, which I am sharing again for those who might have missed it. Enjoy!
Thank you so much for this. I'll take both suggestions! I'm about to start a four-week Zoom class on Gandhi and nonviolence. The text we use is Nonviolence Daily, by Michael N. Nagler and Stephanies N. Van Hook. "They have the guns. We have the poets. Therefore we will win." Howard Zinn
Speaking of Howard Zinn, imho his "A People's History of the United States" ought to be one of the standard textbooks for every high school course on American History.
Thank you for this. I’m looking for alternatives to the dumb stuff. I just can’t do the glorification of ignorance and celebrity anymore. I read a definition of celebrity: Someone who is famous for being famous.
Hope. NONE of the orange baby man's clown show would be happening if he was disqualified day one after forensic psychiatrist Dr Bandy X Lee's report of the five dangerous mental pathologies of Donald Trump.
SImon: "…we need to make partisan voter registration a core responsibility of the Democratic Party at all levels once again and not leave this important work to outside, non-partisan groups."
SUGGESTION – Please interview someone with Field Team 6 to highlight their work, methods and actual voter registration numbers! Their state-by-state numbers should be revealing and valuable for our work going forward.
Also, as someone pointed out last night, Field Team 6 is *already* doing Partisan voter registration, and doing it well and cheaply! Imho, although FT6 is an outside group, it might behoove the Democratic Party to work closely with them and garner the benefits of Field Team 6’s excellent organization, proven methods and extensive experience.
What about Florida? I know the registration laws are very draconian now in Florida. If I am not mistaken, you can be in criminal jeopardy if someone fraudulently fills out a form that you gave them.
I registered lots of voters in Florida in 2016. This year no one in the Democratic campaigns would touch it.
Well I'm not sure I do. But I was told that the jeopardy the law places us in if we register voters makes it impractical to do. But the details I do not know offhand.
All I know is it wasn't done this cycle by the campaign. At least not in the way I did it in 2016, standing around with a clipboard, or collecting forms my mother gave to others in her living facility. Those things seem to not be on the table anymore.
I did see some groups on college campuses registering voters. But I never asked who they were affiliated with.
Thank you Simon - Hopium has become a place I wouldn't trade for anything. I am quite sure it will be one of the most important places for me in surviving the next four years, as we not only survive Trump but plan a new strategy for winning elections.
Hey there. Kinda wanted to ask some folks here about what's worked for them in terms of creating structure for a Dem club - if anyone has any experience. My city used to have ward clubs, but over the last 20 years that has withered away to nothing. I'm determined to start one in my ward - because I've been embarrassed at our sad turnout numbers of late - and I was wondering if anyone here has experience in working with that here and what has helped them make this kind of organization a success.
PS: Sorry if this doesn't belong here Simon. This is probably the most productive and constructive online discussion regarding doing the right thing that I've found online and I thought I might be able to mine some good ideas here. :)
After the election loss I started a women’s progressive group with a neighbor mainly to process our grief. It is very local and started with 5 and it grew organically via asking people we knew and now we are at around 20 and outgrowing our space and we are working with our county dem party to work on an upcoming election.
A wonderful post, Simon. We are grateful for the fact that you have clearly been listening, and unlike many leaders on our side, not patronizing constituents for their own agenda. We need to remain inspired and courageous.
. JIMMY CARTER Says Best Part of Heaven is He Will Never See Trump
HEAVEN (The Borowitz Report) — In a wide-ranging interview on Thursday, former President Jimmy Carter said that the best part of Heaven “by far” is the knowledge that he will never see Donald J. Trump again.
“Don’t get me wrong, I’m very grateful for the gift of eternal life,” he said. “But an eternity without Trump is the greatest gift of all.”
Carter said that he was “far from alone” in appreciating his Trump-free existence, adding, “Nelson Mandela just said the same thing.”
Asked if he had seen Trump on cable news criticizing his sale of the Panama Canal, Carter responded, “We don’t have cable news up here. I’ve heard it’s on nonstop in the other place.”
(For many years, Andy Borowitz was the lead satirical writer at the New Yorker. Before that, in 2011, the Borowitz Report was voted the Number One Twitter account in the world in a Time magazine poll.)
The memorial service has been moving. I got the image that for one ex-president in attendance, it was like Jacob Marley and the ghosts of Christmases past, present and future converging on Whoville.
(He had to endure -- for several hours with no ability to use social media -- others conveying the life of a TRULY GOOD person.) Walter Mondale's son, for example: "My father was especially proud that we did not lie and upheld the rule of law." (Recalling their term was partly a response to Watergate.)
Agree. And Gerald Ford-- from the grave-- demonstrated how two political rivals could work together for the betterment of our nation and the world. Steven Ford emphasized all the right words and phrases reading his dad's words for Carter!
As each person recounted what Jimmy's life meant to them, and every time the camera would pan the front rows, I kept thinking: "One of these leaders is not like the others."
One of the ways I'd like to see our representatives communicate is by posting brief daily updates of what they achieved for their constituents that day on their websites. If they attended a meeting, did they use that platform to actively advocate for or against something? If they voted for something, why? How did it help their constituents and/or support the rights of all citizens or protect democracy in the world. If they voted against something, why? What, or who, were they protecting? There should be a running daily diary on their individual websites that constituents can access at any time to review both actions and thoughts of their elected leaders. If they are doing the right things and focused on their constituents and bolstering democracy here and around the world, this should be a no-brainer. If they are not doing things they feel comfortable posting about, maybe they (and we) should be asking why. Anything really newsworthy could also be shared across social media, on YouTube and press released to other outlets.
Here is a truly excellent model for what you are proposing. Although an outside source, this substack has been tracking and posting daily details on the work of President Biden and his administration. It’s really worth a look!
I am in a group since 2017 that does postcards. We did zillions. We spent a lot on postcards and stamps and time. I think it wasn't effective but I am not sure about that OR canvassing. Our high money did not prove effective. We need NEW action, and I am not sure what that is.
Winning doesn't mean the ground game "worked", and losing doesn't mean the ground game "didn't work".
We have to realize the limitations of what we did and explore other ways. Ground game is limited. I've seen studies of it, and assuming those studies have validity, it was always understood to be in the 1-2% effect range.
Other things might be more effective. We need to reinvent. But some of the "ground game" might still have its uses.
agree….need to be practical here and recognize the new game…whatever the new game actually is. I also wonder how to reach “low information voters”. With information? Argh.
Canvassing is most definitely effective, but it's most helpful when you start early and use it with a goal of identifying supporters first and then activating them as you get close to the election. It can easily make the difference in a close race.
This was all true once about canvassing. We did it for decades and people answered the door and talked. Not at all true in this past experience for the first time.
What about keeping up with the postcards, but aiming for 2026 and 2028 starting right now? One complaint about them was that “I only hear from you at election time”. What if we mailed them starting now to point out what the incoming administration is doing that is against their interests. If we send them every couple of months or something we could build some trust and have an impact!
Steve, thanks. I like the proactive suggestion. It just costs a fair amount for 30,000 postcards and stamps in one year as well as in time. I just want to know what is effective in this new world.
Just because Harris lost doesn't mean those efforts were "ineffective", or would not matter in the future. You can't know either way.
It means that whatever other disadvantages we had were greater than our efforts could make up for.
But that said, it is always a good idea to try to invent new things.
I think we need new digital outreach and digital networks. I think we also need direct social interactions beyond digital.
I also think that our side needs to do more to develop a moral argument for our views, a moral argument for our approach to government, and a better way to frame the issues. And stop working in the frames of conservatives, which means instead of arguing against their views, argue our own views as an alternative perspective.
So we need better messages, better means of delivering the messages and widening the scope of our networks. Someone needs to test that messages delivered by whatever means do not just die, but wind up propagating throughout networks.
But none of that means, in my opinion, that post carding and canvassing are not useful. Like Simon presented in his talk, it might be a question of whether it is worth your time and money. Or whether your time and money is better spent elsewhere.
I think it helped in NC. Possibly it is more effective in down ballot races where candidates are not more widely known and if you can name the person you want them to vote for.
I will say I was not happy that we were not allowed to do more than just encourage people to vote without specifying for what candidate or party with the company I chose to go with. Makes me concerned that it encouraged those less likely to vote, to vote for Trump.
A couple of things from last evening. I appreciated the comments about the draconian emails claiming they are needing money. I opened my email this am and there were three (3) draconian duns from the DCCC. It flat out makes me angry to constantly be harassed especially knowing they did not use all the funds collected for 2024. Second several in the chat suggested reading a book together as a way to learn but also share. I thought that was as good idea. I also think we need to be loud about all the djt craziness. Our electeds have to speak up and not dismiss the craziness and the imperial tendancies of his royal orangeness. Keep up the good work. Thank for the insights, it's how we do a better job in the future.
Framelab does a book club. It’s organized by George Lakoff, I believe, and this year they’re reading his book: “The Political Mind.” I think it’s an excellent idea, as the book discusses why Democrats’ strategy of using rational arguments to try to persuade voters doesn’t’t work - hint- because people don’t make political decisions rationally. I think we saw evidence of this in 2024 for sure, and I believe the book talks about how we might approach these discussions more effectively. It’s worth a look: https://www.theframelab.org/.
I was thinking exactly about this. I didn't mention it but I'm glad you did.
I'm part of their book club to read it. I listened to the audio recording and now I am slowly reading it. It should be required reading for our leaders and anyone who wants to learn how to develop messaging, even in talking to voters or people you know.
Yeah I've always thought those emails are counterproductive.
What Trump understands (or does at least), and neuroscientists have shown, is that if you keep activating neural circuitry, you begin to rewire brains. You convince people of things which may or may not be true.
I can't prove but could certain imagine that desperate emails about how we are "finished!" or "losing!", etc, with all the pejoratives, might discourage people from voting, or discourage them from other efforts. They might fork over money, but others might read those and become despondent.
Why would we rewire peoples' brains to feel despondent about an impending loss? They need to knock it off.
I like this comment via Simon and Ben W seems aligned with this:
"So if we do not start having a national strategy to compete and win in the national debate every day, all we do is operate inside a right-wing defined frame which prevents us from ever telling our side of the story."
Also, we need to stay together as Simon mentioned last night. I think he mentioned it in the last ten minutes or so.
Everything is sales from ideas, to people to products. Dems must engage skilled sales professionals to craft effective messages (WIFM/what's in it for me) delivered regularly where people get their news (online or podcasts). That means talking benefits v features. Example: Infrastructure Project. FEATURES: We are building thousands of new bridges and roads. BENEFITS: We are creating well paying new jobs and making your commute easier. For this initiative, targeted messages to the specific community that benefits would be invaluable.
I had a thought about Trump and his potential problem with wielding power. It seems to me he needs both his MAGA followers and his billionaires. One votes in droves the other supports the threat of primary-ing of republicans. Are we going to see a pattern of distraction like the Greenland nonsense when his two factions are at odds like they were recently? And can we anticipate the pattern and keep the heat on this problem for Trump?
Sorry, I am taking this post down. Anything that starts with "too late for the Democrats" isn't welcome here. Feel free to repost with a more constructive intro please.
Simon, thank you for last night’s subscribers’ gathering. I strongly encourage everybody to take the time to watch the video of this meeting, which was substantive, candid and excellent!
I agree. I know this is a political group, but there are some very interesting things happening around the edges. One excellent resource is a British quarterly, The Resurgence and the Ecologist. Their articles are short and focus on the environment from a range of perspectives, including science, art, and poetry. They have very interesting book reviews. I just finished a book they reviewed called We Will Be Jaguars, A Memoir of My People, by Nemonte Nenquimo and Mitch Anderson. I couldn't put it down.
Thank you for bringing this to my attention!
In these dark times, we surely need good news. Here are 86 great things that have happened. These stories deserved far bigger headlines. Someone else posted this link, which I am sharing again for those who might have missed it. Enjoy!
https://fixthenews.com/86-stories-progress-2024/
For extra enjoyment, savor these stories with your favorite beverage. :)
Thank you so much for this. I'll take both suggestions! I'm about to start a four-week Zoom class on Gandhi and nonviolence. The text we use is Nonviolence Daily, by Michael N. Nagler and Stephanies N. Van Hook. "They have the guns. We have the poets. Therefore we will win." Howard Zinn
Speaking of Howard Zinn, imho his "A People's History of the United States" ought to be one of the standard textbooks for every high school course on American History.
Thank you for this. I’m looking for alternatives to the dumb stuff. I just can’t do the glorification of ignorance and celebrity anymore. I read a definition of celebrity: Someone who is famous for being famous.
Thanks for this. It lifted my spirits!
Agree! I watched in real time and watched the recording again today. Dense with information, and thought provoking!
Hope. NONE of the orange baby man's clown show would be happening if he was disqualified day one after forensic psychiatrist Dr Bandy X Lee's report of the five dangerous mental pathologies of Donald Trump.
"World Mental Health Coalition"
https://youtube.com/@dangerouscasenow2523?si=OzNy4LkMVxd8JzHZ
SImon: "…we need to make partisan voter registration a core responsibility of the Democratic Party at all levels once again and not leave this important work to outside, non-partisan groups."
SUGGESTION – Please interview someone with Field Team 6 to highlight their work, methods and actual voter registration numbers! Their state-by-state numbers should be revealing and valuable for our work going forward.
Also, as someone pointed out last night, Field Team 6 is *already* doing Partisan voter registration, and doing it well and cheaply! Imho, although FT6 is an outside group, it might behoove the Democratic Party to work closely with them and garner the benefits of Field Team 6’s excellent organization, proven methods and extensive experience.
PS. All states ought to have automatic voter registration, with opt-outs.
Great dream!
i was shocked to find out from Simon that the Dem party does not do voter registration. Seems to me that is job one.
It is shocking. In my area -- Montgomery Co, MD -- a lot of that work is done by civic associations and the League of Women voters.
What about Florida? I know the registration laws are very draconian now in Florida. If I am not mistaken, you can be in criminal jeopardy if someone fraudulently fills out a form that you gave them.
I registered lots of voters in Florida in 2016. This year no one in the Democratic campaigns would touch it.
You know far more than I do, so it would be interesting to hear your take on Florida.
Well I'm not sure I do. But I was told that the jeopardy the law places us in if we register voters makes it impractical to do. But the details I do not know offhand.
All I know is it wasn't done this cycle by the campaign. At least not in the way I did it in 2016, standing around with a clipboard, or collecting forms my mother gave to others in her living facility. Those things seem to not be on the table anymore.
I did see some groups on college campuses registering voters. But I never asked who they were affiliated with.
Thank you Simon - Hopium has become a place I wouldn't trade for anything. I am quite sure it will be one of the most important places for me in surviving the next four years, as we not only survive Trump but plan a new strategy for winning elections.
The 2024 US Presidential Election was razor thin. Lots of room for Opposition against authoritarianism and towards democracy.
🔸"Fascist politicians.. decry corruption in the state they seek to take over, which is bizarre,
🔸fascist politicians themselves are.. vastly more corrupt than those they seek to supplant.. "
"How Fascism Works the Politics of Us and Them", Stanley, p52
Hey there. Kinda wanted to ask some folks here about what's worked for them in terms of creating structure for a Dem club - if anyone has any experience. My city used to have ward clubs, but over the last 20 years that has withered away to nothing. I'm determined to start one in my ward - because I've been embarrassed at our sad turnout numbers of late - and I was wondering if anyone here has experience in working with that here and what has helped them make this kind of organization a success.
PS: Sorry if this doesn't belong here Simon. This is probably the most productive and constructive online discussion regarding doing the right thing that I've found online and I thought I might be able to mine some good ideas here. :)
After the election loss I started a women’s progressive group with a neighbor mainly to process our grief. It is very local and started with 5 and it grew organically via asking people we knew and now we are at around 20 and outgrowing our space and we are working with our county dem party to work on an upcoming election.
A wonderful post, Simon. We are grateful for the fact that you have clearly been listening, and unlike many leaders on our side, not patronizing constituents for their own agenda. We need to remain inspired and courageous.
.
On a lighter note…
. JIMMY CARTER Says Best Part of Heaven is He Will Never See Trump
HEAVEN (The Borowitz Report) — In a wide-ranging interview on Thursday, former President Jimmy Carter said that the best part of Heaven “by far” is the knowledge that he will never see Donald J. Trump again.
“Don’t get me wrong, I’m very grateful for the gift of eternal life,” he said. “But an eternity without Trump is the greatest gift of all.”
Carter said that he was “far from alone” in appreciating his Trump-free existence, adding, “Nelson Mandela just said the same thing.”
Asked if he had seen Trump on cable news criticizing his sale of the Panama Canal, Carter responded, “We don’t have cable news up here. I’ve heard it’s on nonstop in the other place.”
https://www.borowitzreport.com/p/jimmy-carter-says-best-part-of-heaven
(For many years, Andy Borowitz was the lead satirical writer at the New Yorker. Before that, in 2011, the Borowitz Report was voted the Number One Twitter account in the world in a Time magazine poll.)
The memorial service has been moving. I got the image that for one ex-president in attendance, it was like Jacob Marley and the ghosts of Christmases past, present and future converging on Whoville.
(He had to endure -- for several hours with no ability to use social media -- others conveying the life of a TRULY GOOD person.) Walter Mondale's son, for example: "My father was especially proud that we did not lie and upheld the rule of law." (Recalling their term was partly a response to Watergate.)
Agree. And Gerald Ford-- from the grave-- demonstrated how two political rivals could work together for the betterment of our nation and the world. Steven Ford emphasized all the right words and phrases reading his dad's words for Carter!
As each person recounted what Jimmy's life meant to them, and every time the camera would pan the front rows, I kept thinking: "One of these leaders is not like the others."
He is helping to keep me sane by giving me a chuckle every day. I love Andy Borowitz!
One of the ways I'd like to see our representatives communicate is by posting brief daily updates of what they achieved for their constituents that day on their websites. If they attended a meeting, did they use that platform to actively advocate for or against something? If they voted for something, why? How did it help their constituents and/or support the rights of all citizens or protect democracy in the world. If they voted against something, why? What, or who, were they protecting? There should be a running daily diary on their individual websites that constituents can access at any time to review both actions and thoughts of their elected leaders. If they are doing the right things and focused on their constituents and bolstering democracy here and around the world, this should be a no-brainer. If they are not doing things they feel comfortable posting about, maybe they (and we) should be asking why. Anything really newsworthy could also be shared across social media, on YouTube and press released to other outlets.
Here is a truly excellent model for what you are proposing. Although an outside source, this substack has been tracking and posting daily details on the work of President Biden and his administration. It’s really worth a look!
. "What Did Joe Biden Do Today?"
https://whatdidbidendotoday.substack.com/p/what-did-joe-biden-do-today-c15
Thanks for sharing. I was aware of this, but maybe some who aren't will get an opportunity to share it.
I am in a group since 2017 that does postcards. We did zillions. We spent a lot on postcards and stamps and time. I think it wasn't effective but I am not sure about that OR canvassing. Our high money did not prove effective. We need NEW action, and I am not sure what that is.
Winning doesn't mean the ground game "worked", and losing doesn't mean the ground game "didn't work".
We have to realize the limitations of what we did and explore other ways. Ground game is limited. I've seen studies of it, and assuming those studies have validity, it was always understood to be in the 1-2% effect range.
Other things might be more effective. We need to reinvent. But some of the "ground game" might still have its uses.
agree….need to be practical here and recognize the new game…whatever the new game actually is. I also wonder how to reach “low information voters”. With information? Argh.
Canvassing is most definitely effective, but it's most helpful when you start early and use it with a goal of identifying supporters first and then activating them as you get close to the election. It can easily make the difference in a close race.
This was all true once about canvassing. We did it for decades and people answered the door and talked. Not at all true in this past experience for the first time.
What about keeping up with the postcards, but aiming for 2026 and 2028 starting right now? One complaint about them was that “I only hear from you at election time”. What if we mailed them starting now to point out what the incoming administration is doing that is against their interests. If we send them every couple of months or something we could build some trust and have an impact!
Steve, thanks. I like the proactive suggestion. It just costs a fair amount for 30,000 postcards and stamps in one year as well as in time. I just want to know what is effective in this new world.
Just because Harris lost doesn't mean those efforts were "ineffective", or would not matter in the future. You can't know either way.
It means that whatever other disadvantages we had were greater than our efforts could make up for.
But that said, it is always a good idea to try to invent new things.
I think we need new digital outreach and digital networks. I think we also need direct social interactions beyond digital.
I also think that our side needs to do more to develop a moral argument for our views, a moral argument for our approach to government, and a better way to frame the issues. And stop working in the frames of conservatives, which means instead of arguing against their views, argue our own views as an alternative perspective.
So we need better messages, better means of delivering the messages and widening the scope of our networks. Someone needs to test that messages delivered by whatever means do not just die, but wind up propagating throughout networks.
But none of that means, in my opinion, that post carding and canvassing are not useful. Like Simon presented in his talk, it might be a question of whether it is worth your time and money. Or whether your time and money is better spent elsewhere.
I think it helped in NC. Possibly it is more effective in down ballot races where candidates are not more widely known and if you can name the person you want them to vote for.
I will say I was not happy that we were not allowed to do more than just encourage people to vote without specifying for what candidate or party with the company I chose to go with. Makes me concerned that it encouraged those less likely to vote, to vote for Trump.
A couple of things from last evening. I appreciated the comments about the draconian emails claiming they are needing money. I opened my email this am and there were three (3) draconian duns from the DCCC. It flat out makes me angry to constantly be harassed especially knowing they did not use all the funds collected for 2024. Second several in the chat suggested reading a book together as a way to learn but also share. I thought that was as good idea. I also think we need to be loud about all the djt craziness. Our electeds have to speak up and not dismiss the craziness and the imperial tendancies of his royal orangeness. Keep up the good work. Thank for the insights, it's how we do a better job in the future.
Framelab does a book club. It’s organized by George Lakoff, I believe, and this year they’re reading his book: “The Political Mind.” I think it’s an excellent idea, as the book discusses why Democrats’ strategy of using rational arguments to try to persuade voters doesn’t’t work - hint- because people don’t make political decisions rationally. I think we saw evidence of this in 2024 for sure, and I believe the book talks about how we might approach these discussions more effectively. It’s worth a look: https://www.theframelab.org/.
I was thinking exactly about this. I didn't mention it but I'm glad you did.
I'm part of their book club to read it. I listened to the audio recording and now I am slowly reading it. It should be required reading for our leaders and anyone who wants to learn how to develop messaging, even in talking to voters or people you know.
I’ve got the audiobook by haven’t started it yet, so thanks for the recommendation.
It is good. Some of the penultimate chapter trails off a bit. The rest of it is useful.
Yeah I've always thought those emails are counterproductive.
What Trump understands (or does at least), and neuroscientists have shown, is that if you keep activating neural circuitry, you begin to rewire brains. You convince people of things which may or may not be true.
I can't prove but could certain imagine that desperate emails about how we are "finished!" or "losing!", etc, with all the pejoratives, might discourage people from voting, or discourage them from other efforts. They might fork over money, but others might read those and become despondent.
Why would we rewire peoples' brains to feel despondent about an impending loss? They need to knock it off.
I like this comment via Simon and Ben W seems aligned with this:
"So if we do not start having a national strategy to compete and win in the national debate every day, all we do is operate inside a right-wing defined frame which prevents us from ever telling our side of the story."
Also, we need to stay together as Simon mentioned last night. I think he mentioned it in the last ten minutes or so.
Everything is sales from ideas, to people to products. Dems must engage skilled sales professionals to craft effective messages (WIFM/what's in it for me) delivered regularly where people get their news (online or podcasts). That means talking benefits v features. Example: Infrastructure Project. FEATURES: We are building thousands of new bridges and roads. BENEFITS: We are creating well paying new jobs and making your commute easier. For this initiative, targeted messages to the specific community that benefits would be invaluable.
I think your spot on Ellen!
I had a thought about Trump and his potential problem with wielding power. It seems to me he needs both his MAGA followers and his billionaires. One votes in droves the other supports the threat of primary-ing of republicans. Are we going to see a pattern of distraction like the Greenland nonsense when his two factions are at odds like they were recently? And can we anticipate the pattern and keep the heat on this problem for Trump?