Simon…I’ve been “tweeting” them ALL on Bsky since the news broke…calling them out for this betrayal! Republicans are NOT known for keeping their promises…I am viewing this as a “Neville Chamberlain” moment for these Democrats!
Make no mistake about it: you have not boxed in Vought. That guarantee is not worth the paper it is printed on. Especially when it comes to Vought. Especially.
This is the same Administration that is more than happy to defy court orders (look no further than Bove). Ultimately, it is in their discretion to figure whether they want to stop Project 2025.
They (the Rs) can try to force it down everyone's throats quickly, or they can try to do it slowly and boil the frog. And as we have seen, it is better when they do the former. The latter is much more dangerous, and is how Hungary fell.
Our greatest enemy is time. And we have given Rs time to do their work in the shadows. And we have given them the opportunity to renege on deals when there's less direct pressure on them.
David is right. The GOP can't be trusted to follow through or honor their word. Its negotiating with terrorists. They were willing to starve poor people and shut down Thanksgiving air travel, after all. And it worked!
What do you think they will be willing to do next time?
The baclkash against the Blue brand in the Senate may be fierce!
Respectfully, what is your evidence? An article? We are all entitled to our opinions. I am of the opinion, that this was a cave and perception matters. The Democrats look weak again, in my opinion, and bailed the Republicans out. I do not consider myself a nut or bloodthirsty.
Let's see how this plays out and what, if anything, we can do to pressure Democrats to undo this. I am a solid Democrat but I am not going to cheerlead for something I don't believe in and I don't believe in this. Again, I hope I am wrong and that this was a master move like so many Nancy Pelosi achieved. By the way, if this was such a great win, why did Schumer vote no? Not that I believe for even a minute he wasn't behind this maybe genius move.
While I have told friends in other countries (who've asked) that if they want to know what's really happening in our country, they should read The Guardian and The Independent, the reasoning in this article sounds like Chuck Schumer 6 months ago. Notably. It's not where Schumer stands today.
You are essentially asking what evidence we have that Republican agreements, promises, and commitments are meaningless. Really? Does the bill they're looking to pass contain (for example) an iron-clad provision against recissions (which is what likely drove Schumer over the edge)? Does it contain an iron-clad provision against impounding and/or redirecting funding approved by Congress? Just how many violations of the law and the Constitution do Democrats need to bear witness to before the only reasonable conclusion to reach is that there *is no such thing* as an iron-clad agreement of *any* kind with this Republican Party? We should be making them be the promise‐ breakers, not doing that nasty business for them, which is what this agreement does to the faith put in us by the American people..
All that said, I can see a way this could work if the Dems involved know something critical we don't that will blow up this betrayal, eg that House Republicans will claim that they're not in favor of the deal, and won't come back to vote on it, which will prove to all with eyes to see what this shutdown has always really been about: Epstein.
But absent that...
PS I sure don't want to hear some cynical, too clever by half explanation for this like keeping health care alive as an issue for 2026 (like Trump kept the border alive in 2024, except this time at the cost of countless lives lost in the interim). I'm all for fighting dirty, but there are depths of depravity we should not follow them into, lest the nation lose its soul (when voters conclude there's no meaningful moral difference between our parties)
This is so upsetting and complicated, and I understand why this deal on the surface might look good.. But no one is safe under autocracy, because autocracy comes for everyone. No agreement with this administration will be honored, because this administration have no honor. All we have is our morality and our backbone. All we have is our honor and our fight. And if we do not fight, they will take more and more and more because they know no one will stop them. They want to destroy everything. I do not consider the Independent an authority here; it is the scholars of fascism that we must heed. And they have been begging everyone to stand strong in opposition.
Please be kind. These are unkind times, and we are all doing our best. We must stick together, while they try so hard to divide us.
Pretty naive if you think that this agreement will be honored by a party of spineless sycophants and regime that is hell bent on destroying our country and our democracy as we’ve known it!
This is a Charlie Brown & Lucy moment…she’s got the football, conned Charlie once again into trying to kick the football, and most of us know what comes next…
No need for name calling or attempts at shaming. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I made calls and sent emails as soon as the news broke. Right now, I agree with Christie. Maybe, I will be proven wrong. I sure as heck hope so. But perception matters and I will stop here.
Because of these 8 dipshits it now looks like the Dems shut down the government for 40 days and made people suffer just to have a chance at a vote, something the GOP would have given them day 1 of the shutdown. And this only applies to layoffs during the shutdown and those RIFS are allowed to start again come January, assuming Trump sticks to this deal. It’s a terrible decision. No one is blood thirsty here and we cannot be giving a tyrant legitimacy by giving him a budget.
I am imagining social media to be a place of honest discourse, safety, and respect. A place where we can expect no name calling. Would you please support my vision?
Well said. What are they thinking? Calling it now without any signed deal on even subsidies is unacceptable.
It’s rewarding Trump for using starvation as a bargaining tool.
Republicans can’t continue to hold the government hostage like this, with no meaningful negotiation. Caving now kicks the can down the road again, and almost ensures that it will be WORSE next time. Negotiating with a psychopath is a lose-lose situation.
WHY would anyone trust the word of a party who’d WITHHOLD FOOD FROM AMERICANS?
I hope there’s a lot more to this supposed deal than what’s been reported.
It seems the deal is already made, and that Senate Majority Leader John Thune now has the Dem votes he needs in the Senate. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I couldn't believe it when I read the New York Times article about Democrats caving. I will call Schumer and Gillibrand tomorrow and express serious displeasure
You bloodthirsty people have no idea what they did, don't you?
Simply put, the Democrats WON.
UK newspapers know this, why don't you?
"The tentative deal would put a vote on the calendar next month to extend those subsidies for one year, while also handing Democrats a clear win by reversing a series of layoffs the White House directed in October as a means of heaping pressure on the president’s political enemies. It would also block future layoffs planned by the administration, another coup for the president’s rivals."
I guess you missed the following paragraph after your citation:
"Whether Republican leadership were on board with these concessions was unclear Sunday afternoon. Administration officials, who flatly refused to negotiate with Democrats while the government is shut down, appeared on board-- but there wasn’t a clear sign that the deal had the backing of Speaker Mike Johnson in the House..."
You may also have missed that unless Trump is on board, there is no deal.
Maybe if people here weren't so happy to tell Federal employees to starve to death and get evicted, I wouldn't call them names for not seeing a win when it bites them on the nose.
i am sick over it, but people are going hungry; people who are working are not getting paid. healthcare is paramount, but starvation is a health issue; we are about to get an arctic cold blast across much of the country; going without heat to stretch a dollar is a health issue too. if the republicans don't honor the healthcare vote or vote the subsidies down later, how is this good for them? it's like curtis lemay and fidel castro during the cuban missile crisis; both wanted to go nuclear, but saner heads prevailed and both sides had to give. i don't see how getting working families their paychecks, which is the bare minimum, you work and get paid for a day's work, right? and getting people their snap benefits to keep from starving is a bad thing. i know people who are really struggling and they are not magas.
I can only hope that you're right, Fisher. But if they did it to keep health care as an issue in 2026 (ie knowing the Repos will reneg), they're no better than Trump was in killing the bipartisan border bill. Every time large swaths of the people suffer for one party or the other to score political points, our system comes that much closer to dying a cynical death, in a world that has long relied on our can-do spirit to keep moving forward.
I suppose so, if you believe we should all start thinking and acting like Trump, who is in at least one way, the most Buddhist president we've ever had, always focused on winning (or doing whatever he has to to survive) the day, tomorrow be damned. The federal workers are in the most need today; the soon-to-be uninsured can wait, is that it? Except as I understand it, the federal workforce has been backing the shutdown, and that’s a major reason the Dems won so bigly in VA a little less than a week ago...
Already called my senators and representative here in NM… will call again tomorrow morning!!! Thank you for your insight on this important matter for the American people!!!!
They gave in right before we won. You gotta be kidding me. Are you telling me magats would t have eaten shit when Thanksgiving came around and their constituents wouldn’t have brought them to their knees? Fucking weak!
I’m not happy about this. 8 defected and this puts the whole party in a bind after the voters wholly endorsed being a party of fighters. Why do we keep letting the GOP do Lucy with the football on us?
I called my Senators also. Tonight. This is simply the stupidest decision I can think of right now, after we had gained so much energy and electoral wins. Senseless.
I’m looking forward to tomorrow’s piece on this. I had seen Jon Ossoff was to vote for this so I hope he didn’t. I actually don’t know what to think, since I kind of want to see it go back to the House, which would have to reopen (I think). But Threads blew up with Dems angered by the cave. I’m sure Simon’s right about this.
Agreed, exactly on point Simon!!! Is definitely my plan ….especially with thes Ohio Senators and my rep Warren Davidson. That is how we Win!!!!! Not stop but intensify and rinse and repeat over and over and over!!!!
Millie Polli Haskell.... Simon, I was going to make another comment earlier today and ask You, if it would be a good idea to start calling Our Senators and Reps. more often??? I guess I was listening to what we needed to do!!?? I will make calls as many times as I can starting tomorrow.
Well, we need focus on the House not caving too and the fact of the Epstein files... those Dem Senators need to be primaried by strong people-focused communicators who can beat them.
Simon…I’ve been “tweeting” them ALL on Bsky since the news broke…calling them out for this betrayal! Republicans are NOT known for keeping their promises…I am viewing this as a “Neville Chamberlain” moment for these Democrats!
Stop it, you nut. The Democrats Won.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/shutdown-congress-republicans-democrats-deal-b2861825.html
I don't see the victory here. This is just plain foolishness.
And I read the article in full, by the way.
Perception is all. And the perception is clear: caving is not a winning strategy. I am sorry.
The victory is the end of Russ Vought and Project 2025.
Read the last sentence of the Independent article quotation:
"It would also block future layoffs planned by the administration, another coup for the president’s rivals."
That ties in with what has been reported elsewhere: the real ask was to shut down Project 2025. That will be accomplished by boxing in Vought.
Make no mistake about it: you have not boxed in Vought. That guarantee is not worth the paper it is printed on. Especially when it comes to Vought. Especially.
This is the same Administration that is more than happy to defy court orders (look no further than Bove). Ultimately, it is in their discretion to figure whether they want to stop Project 2025.
They (the Rs) can try to force it down everyone's throats quickly, or they can try to do it slowly and boil the frog. And as we have seen, it is better when they do the former. The latter is much more dangerous, and is how Hungary fell.
Our greatest enemy is time. And we have given Rs time to do their work in the shadows. And we have given them the opportunity to renege on deals when there's less direct pressure on them.
David is right. The GOP can't be trusted to follow through or honor their word. Its negotiating with terrorists. They were willing to starve poor people and shut down Thanksgiving air travel, after all. And it worked!
What do you think they will be willing to do next time?
The baclkash against the Blue brand in the Senate may be fierce!
Agree. The R's will follow their law-breaking, lying leader.
Simply wrong
You saying this is wrong? What's your evidence? Is it your own feelings that online influencers who hate regular Democrats have manipulated?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/shutdown-congress-republicans-democrats-deal-b2861825.html
Stop your ranting
I think her feelings on this are substantially similar to my comment to you about Vought. Of course, Leslie can tell me if I am wrong.
Respectfully, what is your evidence? An article? We are all entitled to our opinions. I am of the opinion, that this was a cave and perception matters. The Democrats look weak again, in my opinion, and bailed the Republicans out. I do not consider myself a nut or bloodthirsty.
Let's see how this plays out and what, if anything, we can do to pressure Democrats to undo this. I am a solid Democrat but I am not going to cheerlead for something I don't believe in and I don't believe in this. Again, I hope I am wrong and that this was a master move like so many Nancy Pelosi achieved. By the way, if this was such a great win, why did Schumer vote no? Not that I believe for even a minute he wasn't behind this maybe genius move.
Look at HISTORY…they’ve not honored anything…and I am a “regular” Democrat and have been since I was old enough to vote, which is over 50+ years!
While I have told friends in other countries (who've asked) that if they want to know what's really happening in our country, they should read The Guardian and The Independent, the reasoning in this article sounds like Chuck Schumer 6 months ago. Notably. It's not where Schumer stands today.
You are essentially asking what evidence we have that Republican agreements, promises, and commitments are meaningless. Really? Does the bill they're looking to pass contain (for example) an iron-clad provision against recissions (which is what likely drove Schumer over the edge)? Does it contain an iron-clad provision against impounding and/or redirecting funding approved by Congress? Just how many violations of the law and the Constitution do Democrats need to bear witness to before the only reasonable conclusion to reach is that there *is no such thing* as an iron-clad agreement of *any* kind with this Republican Party? We should be making them be the promise‐ breakers, not doing that nasty business for them, which is what this agreement does to the faith put in us by the American people..
All that said, I can see a way this could work if the Dems involved know something critical we don't that will blow up this betrayal, eg that House Republicans will claim that they're not in favor of the deal, and won't come back to vote on it, which will prove to all with eyes to see what this shutdown has always really been about: Epstein.
But absent that...
PS I sure don't want to hear some cynical, too clever by half explanation for this like keeping health care alive as an issue for 2026 (like Trump kept the border alive in 2024, except this time at the cost of countless lives lost in the interim). I'm all for fighting dirty, but there are depths of depravity we should not follow them into, lest the nation lose its soul (when voters conclude there's no meaningful moral difference between our parties)
This is so upsetting and complicated, and I understand why this deal on the surface might look good.. But no one is safe under autocracy, because autocracy comes for everyone. No agreement with this administration will be honored, because this administration have no honor. All we have is our morality and our backbone. All we have is our honor and our fight. And if we do not fight, they will take more and more and more because they know no one will stop them. They want to destroy everything. I do not consider the Independent an authority here; it is the scholars of fascism that we must heed. And they have been begging everyone to stand strong in opposition.
Please be kind. These are unkind times, and we are all doing our best. We must stick together, while they try so hard to divide us.
Well said and thank you.
Agree, Anne. It would help if people in our own party (like these eight) weren't helping them do it.
Sure would!!!!!
Pretty naive if you think that this agreement will be honored by a party of spineless sycophants and regime that is hell bent on destroying our country and our democracy as we’ve known it!
This is a Charlie Brown & Lucy moment…she’s got the football, conned Charlie once again into trying to kick the football, and most of us know what comes next…
No need for name calling or attempts at shaming. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I made calls and sent emails as soon as the news broke. Right now, I agree with Christie. Maybe, I will be proven wrong. I sure as heck hope so. But perception matters and I will stop here.
Because of these 8 dipshits it now looks like the Dems shut down the government for 40 days and made people suffer just to have a chance at a vote, something the GOP would have given them day 1 of the shutdown. And this only applies to layoffs during the shutdown and those RIFS are allowed to start again come January, assuming Trump sticks to this deal. It’s a terrible decision. No one is blood thirsty here and we cannot be giving a tyrant legitimacy by giving him a budget.
Are you kidding?
Incidentally, https://davidsalzillo.substack.com/p/youre-out-of-luck-chuck
I am imagining social media to be a place of honest discourse, safety, and respect. A place where we can expect no name calling. Would you please support my vision?
Well said. What are they thinking? Calling it now without any signed deal on even subsidies is unacceptable.
It’s rewarding Trump for using starvation as a bargaining tool.
Republicans can’t continue to hold the government hostage like this, with no meaningful negotiation. Caving now kicks the can down the road again, and almost ensures that it will be WORSE next time. Negotiating with a psychopath is a lose-lose situation.
WHY would anyone trust the word of a party who’d WITHHOLD FOOD FROM AMERICANS?
I hope there’s a lot more to this supposed deal than what’s been reported.
It seems the deal is already made, and that Senate Majority Leader John Thune now has the Dem votes he needs in the Senate. Please correct me if I am wrong.
They still have to vote.
I thought the Senate voted last night. The House still has to vote. Am I wrong?
I couldn't believe it when I read the New York Times article about Democrats caving. I will call Schumer and Gillibrand tomorrow and express serious displeasure
Already made calls tonight. We need to unite and stand strong.
You bloodthirsty people have no idea what they did, don't you?
Simply put, the Democrats WON.
UK newspapers know this, why don't you?
"The tentative deal would put a vote on the calendar next month to extend those subsidies for one year, while also handing Democrats a clear win by reversing a series of layoffs the White House directed in October as a means of heaping pressure on the president’s political enemies. It would also block future layoffs planned by the administration, another coup for the president’s rivals."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/shutdown-congress-republicans-democrats-deal-b2861825.html
I guess you missed the following paragraph after your citation:
"Whether Republican leadership were on board with these concessions was unclear Sunday afternoon. Administration officials, who flatly refused to negotiate with Democrats while the government is shut down, appeared on board-- but there wasn’t a clear sign that the deal had the backing of Speaker Mike Johnson in the House..."
You may also have missed that unless Trump is on board, there is no deal.
Respectfully, would you please stop with the name calling? It really does nothing to advance your position.
Maybe if people here weren't so happy to tell Federal employees to starve to death and get evicted, I wouldn't call them names for not seeing a win when it bites them on the nose.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/shutdown-congress-republicans-democrats-deal-b2861825.html
No one is happy with any of it. Please. We're all on the same time. The loss of health care will also be catastrophic for people.
Agree 💯.
i am sick over it, but people are going hungry; people who are working are not getting paid. healthcare is paramount, but starvation is a health issue; we are about to get an arctic cold blast across much of the country; going without heat to stretch a dollar is a health issue too. if the republicans don't honor the healthcare vote or vote the subsidies down later, how is this good for them? it's like curtis lemay and fidel castro during the cuban missile crisis; both wanted to go nuclear, but saner heads prevailed and both sides had to give. i don't see how getting working families their paychecks, which is the bare minimum, you work and get paid for a day's work, right? and getting people their snap benefits to keep from starving is a bad thing. i know people who are really struggling and they are not magas.
I can only hope that you're right, Fisher. But if they did it to keep health care as an issue in 2026 (ie knowing the Repos will reneg), they're no better than Trump was in killing the bipartisan border bill. Every time large swaths of the people suffer for one party or the other to score political points, our system comes that much closer to dying a cynical death, in a world that has long relied on our can-do spirit to keep moving forward.
that's very well said, mr. thumb
I sure wish Substack let me give you a traditional "like" emoji in response to that, Anne ;)
I suppose so, if you believe we should all start thinking and acting like Trump, who is in at least one way, the most Buddhist president we've ever had, always focused on winning (or doing whatever he has to to survive) the day, tomorrow be damned. The federal workers are in the most need today; the soon-to-be uninsured can wait, is that it? Except as I understand it, the federal workforce has been backing the shutdown, and that’s a major reason the Dems won so bigly in VA a little less than a week ago...
Kindly don’t revert to name calling. It’s demeaning and unnecessary.
Agree 💯
"UK newspapers know this, why don't you?"
This is one opinion piece by a US-based American writer -- John Bowden -- in one UK journal.
For once, I have to say that our press is right, and the UK's is wrong. I like your username/handle, though ;)
Please stop the name calling. Thank you in advance.
Already called my senators and representative here in NM… will call again tomorrow morning!!! Thank you for your insight on this important matter for the American people!!!!
They will definitely hear from me again!!!!!!!
Senator Tim Kaine
Senator Jeanne Shaheen
Senator Angus King
Senator Maggie Hassan
Senator Dick Durbin
Senator Catherine Cortez Masto
Senator Jacky Rosen
John Fetterman
Thanks for this concise list
Hi Great Simon and hopium friends!
I’m wondering why fair and free elections are not part of the 4-Point Program. Thank you,
Cynthia Whitehead
They gave in right before we won. You gotta be kidding me. Are you telling me magats would t have eaten shit when Thanksgiving came around and their constituents wouldn’t have brought them to their knees? Fucking weak!
I’m not happy about this. 8 defected and this puts the whole party in a bind after the voters wholly endorsed being a party of fighters. Why do we keep letting the GOP do Lucy with the football on us?
I called my Senators also. Tonight. This is simply the stupidest decision I can think of right now, after we had gained so much energy and electoral wins. Senseless.
I’m looking forward to tomorrow’s piece on this. I had seen Jon Ossoff was to vote for this so I hope he didn’t. I actually don’t know what to think, since I kind of want to see it go back to the House, which would have to reopen (I think). But Threads blew up with Dems angered by the cave. I’m sure Simon’s right about this.
Ossoff didn’t vote for it.
Agreed, exactly on point Simon!!! Is definitely my plan ….especially with thes Ohio Senators and my rep Warren Davidson. That is how we Win!!!!! Not stop but intensify and rinse and repeat over and over and over!!!!
Should we be calling senators who are not our own? Is that helpful or a waste of time?
For whatever it was worth, I did. For those whose mailbox was full, I sent an email.
E mail them and use their office zip code. It will count. Being from CA i have to do this
Oh I put my CA zip code.
Often you cannot leave a message if you are not a constituent
Hello everyone,
Well, in case anyone needs any cheering up, https://davidsalzillo.substack.com/p/shitposts-literally-ragebaits-and.
Millie Polli Haskell.... Simon, I was going to make another comment earlier today and ask You, if it would be a good idea to start calling Our Senators and Reps. more often??? I guess I was listening to what we needed to do!!?? I will make calls as many times as I can starting tomorrow.
Thanks, Simon, for your inspiration & guidance! I will contact my Maryland Representatives and Senators.
Well, we need focus on the House not caving too and the fact of the Epstein files... those Dem Senators need to be primaried by strong people-focused communicators who can beat them.
Durbin is retiring
so why do it now? really???