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Nana Booboo's avatar

The people who are reinforcing Republican talking points about "Dems caving" are doing it to promote their own candidates and campaigns (and in Gavin Newsom's case, so people will forget his abandoning transgender people).

If they really were angry about the shutdown deal instead of trying to use it against Democrats in general they would only be talking about primarying the Senate Democrats who voted for the deal. They wouldn't be primarying Schumer and they really wouldn't be primarying Jeffries or any other House Democrats

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Lisa Iannucci's avatar

Agree with this, that's why I was arguing against repeating the "Dems in Disarray" meme a few days back. I said yesterday, let's not do the work for them, and oversimplify something that is complex. :)

I'd love to hear from Chair Martin here at Hopium, that would be really helpful.

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Virginia Shultz-Charette's avatar

Absolutely! Sometimes Dems are their own worst enemy by badmouthing each other. I am proud to be a Democrat! We are the only party that delivers for the people - all the people. When you hear Dems start to bad mouth the party - challenge them. We have to be in power to help the country go forward, all we can do as the party out of power is file lawsuits and drag the bad things the Rethuglicans are doing( no that is not a mispelling) into the spotlight, try to slow them down, and encourage the public to get involved. This results in winning elections. And if you are not happy with what your Senator or Congressman is doing, then vote in someone new, don't sit it out. But because we are a broad-based party, realize that there are moderate and progressive Democrats. They don't agree with each other 100% of the time and that is OK. That is really a strength and not a weakness since they are a reflection of their voters.

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Lisa Iannucci's avatar

Our diversity is our strength. One of our mantras in the past, now and going forward!

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Virginia Shultz-Charette's avatar

Exactly! I wish people would stop with the Dems Caved. They were never going to win that this fall, but it did bring out to the fore the cruelty of our opposition. That is the point that has to continue to be brought home. The ACA will survive, though weakened. We will win next fall and if Trump wants to get a dime more, he will have to come to us and that will be part of the bargain.

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Virginia Shultz-Charette's avatar

I would also love to hear from Martin. He would put everything in perspective.

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Donna PG's avatar
3hEdited

Even (very-left-leaning Dem) Lawrence O'Donnell has been highlighting this in his shows this week. He's been very clear to change the narrative, that Dems did not cave, that there was very little we could do to get all we wanted as the party out of power, that we waited till after the election, 7 weeks, and it might work out in our favor in the end, though I still don't know if he agreed with ending the shutdown at this point. He stressed that there's a lot we don't know about how this could turn out, but explained in many ways how and why those 8+ dems (more like 13 who favored it) voted as they did. I respect his knowledge and insights, so it made me feel better.

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Catherine Giovannoni's avatar

Simon, thanks! Looking forward to this evening's subscriber chat!

I'm wondering if there's any way to force the House into session over Johnson's orders? Surely there must be some procedural method? I don't know the procedural rules well enough, but I think that, once there are 218 signatures, a certain number of days have to pass and then there's a vote in the Congress. Are those calendar days or meeting days? And even if they're calendar days, if Congress isn't in session then there can't be a vote?? Even some Rs are getting antsy about having been on such a long vacation and the Dems last night did a good job of shaming the Rs on this.

I'm making my calls and contacting MD's State Senate President who appears to be against redistricting.

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Lisa Iannucci's avatar

I am not sure, but if you are looking for knowledge on House/Senate procedure, the host of the Kagro in the Morning podcast from DailyKos radio is a former staffer of Sen. Menendez and knows the ins and outs of parliamentary procedure on The Hill like nobody's business. Here's a link to yesterday's episode: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2025/11/11/2353261/-Kagro-in-the-Morning-podcast-AUDIO-Tuesday-November-11-2025

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Claire Cirolia's avatar

I'm reposting my message from Monday re: Simon's interview with Stuart Stevens and the messages that appeared in that chat. I feel it is worth posting again because I think it is especially relevant after Simon and Katie Phang's deeply thoughtful meeting yesterday where there was a lot of discussion about community.

"Yes, thanks, Simon. While all you say is true, it is also true that some of the rude comments I saw were not from trolls or others, but from folks in our community. And that doesn't feel good. One reason that I, and am sure many others, are part of Hopium is for the sense of community. Certainly I understand the frustration and anger over the vote -- heck, Sen. Kaine is my Senator! and I expressed my own disillusionment. What people feel, they feel, and we can agree to disagree (ex. I think Schumer is not a strong leader and should be replaced, which I believe you would disagree with...) but people don't have to be rude and unkind to each other in "the family" as you call it. Thanks again, Simon, for all you do for this community, Claire"

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MrsCQ's avatar

I listened to Simon's discussion with Stuart Stevens bc so many here said it was really good. It was! I am so glad I made the time to listen to it. I downloaded Simon's discussion with Katie Phang as well, and will, hopefully, listen to it today.

I agree we can agree to disagree in a civil manner. I believe most of us are expressing our dismay and disappointment in a civil manner. I appreciate being able to express it here. Maybe, eventually, I will get it out of my system. I am still not over it but the fight continues.

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Nana Booboo's avatar

The shutdown had given us all it was going to give us. It was hurting more than it was helping. AFGE and other unions were begging, publicly, for it to end. Millions of Federal workers and SNAP users were hurting more and more with each day.

But lefties who want to primary normal Democrats (and people like Newsom who wants us to forget he tossed transgender people under the bus) are reinforcing Republican shutdown propaganda because it serves their purposes of undermining elected Democrats.

The giveaway is that they are going after Jeffries and Schumer. Schumer voted against the deal, Jeffries is whipping his members to do the same.

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Claire Cirolia's avatar

I hear you, MrsCQ. Both of those discussions were excellent. I'm hoping Simon can get Stuart here once a week so we know we'll see him, say every Monday?

I think you will very much enjoy the discussion with Katie. It has a very different flavor -- salty, I think Simon said, in jest. Katie expressed a lot of what people were/are still feeling after the Sunday night vote. As always, Simon was wonderful in his response -- he knows how to keep the discussion moving and always in his thoughtful manner. He revealed that long ago, one of his colleagues in the politics biz said that Simon's job is to not focus so much about what has happened but to always learn from whatever it is, look forward and SAY "What's next?"

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MrsCQ's avatar

I am so glad I took the time to listen to Simon's discussion with Stuart. Definitely will make the time to listen to Simon and Katie. With so many wonderful people to read and listen to on Substack, it's difficult to listen/read them all. I am limiting myself to a few but it's hard. So thankful we have independent journalists we can turn to during these times. Thank you!

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Mary Nunes's avatar

YES!!!👏🏼 And do listen to Katie and Simon. Their discussion exemplifies what you expressed—and others are expressing, too. We must be able to develop our “strong bones” without sabotaging our movement toward change. Focusing solely on anger and disillusionment would surely lead to such sabotage. Thank you, MrsCQ for your comments. And thank you, Simon, for your wonderful open discussions with Stuart and Katie! May such constructive openness prevail in our fight against the evil emanating from the White House.

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MrsCQ's avatar

I agree. I am thankful that we got to express our disappointment and anger, with the exception of a few, keeping it civil. For me, it's a processing issue and I can't process without being honest about what I am feeling first. Then, as they say, we move forward. What does that mean? Not sure exactly, but I know one thing. We have to keep fighting this authoritarian movement. etc. Thank you!

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Gary Scharrer's avatar

This: “My hope is that Leader Jeffries announces his Members will stay in town until the Thanksgiving recess, and hold shadow hearings, daily press conferences, etc. You know, go to work while the cowardly House Republicans run away, again.”

It keeps these issues on the front burner; it shows Dems are engaged and eager to fix problems, while GOPers are back doing nothing on their constituent-paid vacation .

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Leon Rubis's avatar

I just called Jeffries office and left a voicemail encouraging him to do that.

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Gary Scharrer's avatar

Gracias…

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Kent Boyer's avatar

Looks like we have some work to do on the Weak-Strong question as Dems. I see us as strongly committed to doing good for the people of the country, but obviously that strength isn't being read by the country. Things like Sunday night don't help that issue. We can, however, work to correct that before November '26. Hang tough and let's make it so, friends.

PS They came back just to open the govt and he sent them home again? What? Aren't there any Republicans that will push back on his cowardice and get back to work?

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ArcticStones's avatar

Once again, priceless satire from Andy Borowitz:

"Trump Orders ICE to Arrest 67,000 NFL Fans Who Booed Him"

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report) — In a move that tests the limits of presidential power, on Wednesday Donald J. Trump ordered ICE agents to arrest the 67,000 football fans who booed him at Sunday’s Washington Commanders game.

“This should never be allowed to happen in this country,” Trump said, adding that the booing fans “were paid by Soros.”

Justifying his use of immigration agents, Trump accused all those who booed him of being in a Venezuelan drug cartel.

Elaborating on his claim, Trump said, “Despite our successful air strikes off the coast of Venezuela, somehow 67,000 of these criminals got through.”

https://www.borowitzreport.com/p/trump-orders-ice-to-arrest-67000

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Deborah Potter's avatar

Thank you for this laugh!

Here's some of the booing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3xtg4d010U and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ekd4vb6b-4

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ArcticStones's avatar

OMG, that is music to my ears!

I would love to see political polling of just those that attended this game.

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Lisa Iannucci's avatar

Good morning all - I think the weak/strong thing is critical, as indicated above. But strength needs to come from acting with moral clarity, bravery and vision, not with the knee-jerk responses and fascist rhetoric that pass for "strength" in the current regime.

Here are some presidential (and one first lady) quotes that exemplify this:

"The only limit to our realization of tomorrow will be our doubts of today. Let us move forward with strong and active faith." - FDR, Prepared for April 13, 1945

“Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell ’em, ‘Certainly I can!’ Then get busy and find out how to do it.” - Teddy Roosevelt

“Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it.” - Abraham Lincoln

“You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, 'I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along.' You must do the thing you think you cannot do.” - Eleanor Roosevelt

"I look forward to a great future for America, a future in which our country will match its military strength with our moral restraint, its wealth with our wisdom, its power with our purpose." - JFK

Low energy day, going to make some calls and catch up on some reading.

Keep going!

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Claire Cirolia's avatar

Nicely done, thanks Lisa

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WA's avatar

Daily calls are in to WI members of Congress regarding our 4part agenda.

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Leon Rubis's avatar

I've been reading lots of irate pundits about Schumer. Here's a different take from Hayes Brown. https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/senate-shutdown-deal-chuck-schumer-rcna243015

Some key quotes:

"Schumer doesn’t deserve the ire he’s getting. While I think he should be doing more to forestall Trump’s agenda, in the case of the ongoing shutdown, the minority leader was in no position to hold back his members who were dead set on finding an off-ramp. ...

"It’s hard to see what any other minority leader in Schumer’s place would have been able to do differently. Senators are much more loath to be treated as subordinates by their leadership than their House counterparts. In the Senate, every member is seen as a co-equal under a set of rules that greatly empowers the rank-and-file to go rogue. This setup continually allows for ad-hoc “gangs” of bipartisan senators to negotiate among themselves rather than waiting for marching orders from committee chairs or caucus leadership."

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Lisa Iannucci's avatar

Sen. Whitehouse was on Lawrence saying pretty much the same thing last night. Senators act as individuals more often than not. Thx for posting.

Also LOL Irate Pundits - sounds like a punk rock band inside the Beltway.

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B. Warren's avatar

I’d like to apologize for my strident comments when you were speaking with Katie Phang. As a member of the Democratic Family, I felt like this was a safe place to vent. I still think Schumer should be replaced, but I am also ready to move on. Although a swift stepping down and replacement would only help us, I’m ok and can see the arguments against this. On to the next battle, because there is no time to “dwell”.

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Marcia's avatar

Thank you for this apology and the update of your emotional state.

We’re gonna get through this set-back as long as most in our family have your maturity, common-sense, and fighting spirit!

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CC Befana's avatar

Mike Johnson has already announced Members are being sent home tomorrow after they vote to re-open the government tonight???? I think we're gonna see a Johnson "mutiny" from some of the House Repubs if this happens.

I will be watching as Adelita Grijalva is sworn in today~so exciting! I'm sending up all good thoughts that nothing derails it.

Reporting:

Yesterday, called & berated my 2 despicable repub sens for their last minute $$$ grab snuck into legislation to reopen the government. Today-back to the Hopium 4.

Continuing to donate cash for TN US Rep District 7 Special Election of Aftyn Behn from Nashville area. Today is first day of early voting.

Since Sept I'm working to elect Memphis native, Jerri Green as TN Governor [against Sen Blackburn}, $$$, volunteer for live events, postcard captain.

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Deborah Potter's avatar

👻 The ghost of Epstein haunts Congress and scared the shit out of speaker Johnson and the rest of maga. 😉

And from Wapo, this gift article "House Democrats release Epstein email that claimed Trump ‘spent hours’ with victim" https://wapo.st/43rVKQr

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ArcticStones's avatar

Epstein surely gives Epshteyn a headache.

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Sarah Marshall's avatar

Assuming the House votes to reopen government, presumably by passing a CR, when does it expire? Will Republicans just keep offering CRs?

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Michael G Baer's avatar

The CR in the deal is until January 30.

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Art's avatar

I was wondering that too...thanks!

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Naomi Bailis's avatar

I have been as salty as Katie Phang and I agree with you Simon. We need to train our fight not as much at our "family" ( I did call the feckless 8 nonetheless and let them hear it) but at the ones truly taking a hatchet to our democracy. I hope to get home from work in time to join the call tonight.

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kitkatmia's avatar

all my life i have been a dem. and all my life, it has been said dems dont fight back. and all my life, only the dem party has really cared about people and tried to implement policies that helped them. and all my life, all these good works and intentions ( joe bidens best economy in the world comes to mind) have never been succinctly messaged. so americans perceive weakness & hesitancy and on the other hand never really hear about our decades and decades of good works. this has always been frustrating to me. and i have never understood it and it persists today. all the good things joe did for us, no one ever really got it. so somehow we, the dem party, dem electeds, need to fix this perpetual problem. repubs lie, cheat and steal, but they win. we play by the book, and we lose. we need a new brave dem culture, with new brave leadership!

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Virginia Shultz-Charette's avatar

We as Democrats must not use phrases like " Dems caved again", sometimes we step all over our message, it should be something like, " though outnumbered Dems worked long and hard to return subsidized ACA premiums this year, they were outnumbered and the clock ran out when new harmful premium letters went out due to the unwillingness of the Republicans to serve the public."

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Leon Rubis's avatar

An analogy I think is pertinent is two people on either side of a door. One (Dems) is pushing hard to open the door (i.e., progress). The other (GOP) is pushing as hard or harder to keep the door closed. When the door fails to open, for some reason, many people blame the side trying to open the door, not the side keeping it shut.

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WiseAssumer in Las Cruces's avatar

". . . making him [Johnson} far more a eunuch than a Speaker."

Nothing against eunuchs, most of whom had the decision made for them, but I started calling them Squeakers when McCarthy was on about the tenth ballot and giving power to the loonies to win the office. All he could do once he got the gavel was duck and whine.

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