Transcript - Simon Rosenberg Interviews GovAct Founder Julia Spiegel

Simon Rosenberg:
Welcome, everyone. Simon Rosenberg, Hopium Chronicles, back with what is going to be a really interesting event today. I’m joined by Julia Spiegel. Welcome, Julia.

Julia Spiegel:
Thank you.

Simon Rosenberg:
Julia runs an organization called GovAct. She has experience at the federal level, at the state and local level… she was part of the Newsom administration… and part of the reason I asked Julia to come on today is that we’ve been talking a lot here in recent weeks about the need for us to come together and band together. And have those people in the country who are fighting against MAGA to learn from the Europeans, for example, who stuck together as a coalition and were able to achieve remarkable things for themselves against Trump.

I think that what GovAct represents is sort of an interesting and innovative way to bring people together, to exert more power in this debate, to learn how to operate in this post Trumpian world. And so Julia, welcome. And I would love it if you walked people through… keep it really simple… walk people through what GovAct is and what you’re trying to do.

Julia Spiegel:
It’s such a privilege to be here, Simon, thank you. And I couldn’t agree more about this being the moment to create new infrastructure to work together. Your notion of collaborating across Europe is what we’re doing across the United States. So GovAct very simply was born out of governor’s offices when I had the privilege of a lifetime of serving under Governor Newsom and supporting him and his agenda to work across state lines and break out of the silos working state by state so that governors in their teams could work together to be force multipliers to work collectively to achieve goals and help govern more effectively.

We were born out of the reproductive rights era and the Reproductive Freedom Alliance that Governor Newsom launched in the aftermath of Dobbs, saying we need to band together at the state level to effectuate real change to protect patients and providers. And built from that premise to say… what is the broader architecture that we need in this moment… so that governors can do this across issues? GovAct serves as that platform to protect fundamental freedoms in response to whatever the priorities are for the governors in this moment.

Simon Rosenberg:
And you’ve expanded now. Let’s actually start with the origin because Dobbs was only a few years ago. And just talk us through how it started and how you ended up using this as a model for other projects. We’ll get into the other projects you’re working on.

Julia Spiegel:
Absolutely. So I was serving in the Legal Affairs Department to Governor Newsom when the leaked Dobbs opinion came out. And the candid reality is that the whole ecosystem wasn’t prepared for fundamental freedom to be stripped away overnight. So we in California started working as hard as we could to pursue every legislative, constitutional, other type of initiative to protect providers and patients in the state. And what actually happened organically is that we got incoming from other governor’s offices who tracked us down and said, look, we see this incredible leadership out of California. We have similar ideas and questions. We’re wondering if you thought about doing this way versus that way or what were the complexities… we’d love to talk about it together. We realized we tapped into something really powerful which is we’re all trying to row in the same direction, and yet we’ve been doing it alone. How can we find this way to do it as a collective? And that is why Governor Newsom launched the Reproductive Freedom Alliance with 23 governors.

What it’s able to facilitate is for governors to look at every tool they have. Their executive authority, the agencies they oversee, the budgets that they approve. How can they use every lever, and work collectively to try and fortify, in that case, reproductive rights? But now, as you mentioned, other alliances on democracy and on public health and other issues that the governors know are paramount in this moment.

Simon Rosenberg:
And what do you think you’ve been able to achieve in that first alliance? Looking back on it now, it’s been a few years since you launched. I mean, talk to us about what you’ve been able to do.

Julia Spiegel:
Well, what I’m proudest of is how proud the governors have been of the suite of actions that they’ve taken. A great example is actually just last week, Governor Newsom relied on an executive order that was part of what we call the original like shield laws to protect patients and providers to not have to extradite a provider who provided telehealth into Louisiana. Because of that state’s efforts to prosecute the provider in California. That is something that the states banded together, collectively did, to put in place these protections.

They also facilitated new ways of doing this kind of work together. So for instance, as medication abortion has come under attack, the governors banded together to say, well, how can we make sure that in this moment of uncertainty, this moment of fear, how can we reassure our people in saying we have your back, you will be able to get the care that you need? And so they creatively banded together to figure out different ways to stockpile abortion medication, so that should anything come up with respect to mifepristone, misoprostol, any other care, that they can say in good confidence, don’t worry. You can get the abortion care that you need.

That kind of proactive coordination, that kind of stockpiling, working collectively, we had never seen anything like that before across state government. And I think it shows to you the power of when you bring these different offices together… what great ideas are born and how you can multiply and span them across the country to such great effect.

Simon Rosenberg:
And you’ve launched now two more big projects since the Reproductive Freedom Alliance. You have a big one on healthcare, which has actually been significant in recent months, and also a project on preserving democracy. Just talk to us a little bit about both.

Julia Spiegel:
Yeah, well, let’s talk about public health in this moment… today is the day that our understanding is that the U.S. is trying to fulfill its intent to withdraw from the World Health Organization. That’s an organization that is focused on disease outbreak surveillance and helping us make sure that our people are safe and healthy. So governors in this country, representing more than one in three people in the US, banded together to form this public health alliance that is dedicated to making sure that vaccine access remains available, affordable and covered by insurance. And also that we’re able to track and monitor for diseases. Otherwise some of this architecture is falling by the wayside.

And the reality I think that you’re seeing, Simon, is that governors don’t have the choice of saying we’re no longer going to protect public health or we’re no longer going to fulfill our core mandate of protecting the health and wellbeing of our people. So where other structures may fall by the wayside, we’re going to band together to make sure that we’re able to make those protections.

So an example in the vaccine space is that we helped put together a vaccine toolkit. There are many other great thinkers and actors in this space so that states could say, whatever is happening federally, we’re going to make sure that vaccines for kids and others are still covered by insurance, are still available in our states, and still accessible more broadly. And so we’ve seen states step up. More than 28 of them to date have now done that recognizing the huge need.

So that’s just on the public health side.

Simon Rosenberg:
Well, I think it’s important to sort of note that there are two aspects of your work. One is the things that MAGA and Trump are doing that are not in the interest of your citizens in these states, but the other one is federal responsibilities that have been abandoned… in their rolling back, and DOGE, and everything else. This is a very good example of, you know, that in this effort for them to cut back on the scale and scope of the federal government, they’re leaving federal responsibilities, they’re just abandoning them. And to your point, the states don’t have an option to abandon their citizens. And so part of this is also just a very pragmatic response to Trump receding from the historical responsibility of the federal government in critical places.

Julia Spiegel:
And just how significant the needs are on the ground in these states. When you work in and live and serve the people of the states, you see that affordability measures can’t just wait while we sort out our politics or whatever’s happening at the federal level. People need food on the tables today. People need to be able to afford their mortgage today. And so that’s why, for instance, in the democracy space, we saw several governors band together to lay bare the cost of tariffs on people in their states. That’s something where you saw parts of corporate America originally saying that they were going to make that transparent, and really show the cost increase that people were facing, and then they backed away from that.

And so these governors banded together collectively to say we’re going to direct our administrations to document the impact and lay bare to the American people the true costs and how this is hurting affordability and hurting families and homes in making ends meet. That’s something that I think, again, is so much more powerful when it’s done in a coordinated collective manner as opposed to piecemeal.

Simon Rosenberg:
I’ve noticed Jared Polis has been very active in this campaign… it’s a very important part of his social media presence. And so he’s not only done it, but he’s actually really promoted this and it’s really broken through, I think, it’s gotten to my attention. And so we have the Reproductive Health Alliance, the emerging and growing health alliance. Talk about the democracy work. I mean, what are you thinking about in terms of looking ahead to the elections and what kind of plans are in place this year?

Julia Spiegel:
Look, obviously, Minnesota is on everyone’s minds and in the news every minute right now. Some of the work of course is helping governors navigate this moment where they are commanders in chief of their states. Where they have to protect public safety and well being. So, you know, you saw Governor Newsom even had Govs. Kotek and Pritzker on his own podcast to talk about all the ways in which they were communicating and working together with respect to the National Guard takeovers in their states. Some of that was about litigation, but some of it was about operational communications practices and working with local groups on the ground to make sure that everyone was safe and protected. That work has to continue and grow given what we’re seeing in Minnesota.

There are now these ICE deployments in Maine. And I do think there is a very real concern that that is going to continue to destabilize communities, especially as we lead up to the election. So we’re doing everything we can to support efforts to coordinate and prepare and keep people safe.

In addition to that, there’s a whole suite of things around affordability. When we think about democracy and what matters to people, what we have heard loud and clear from people on the ground in the states that we serve is that democracy matters because it’s supposed to meet their daily needs. And so the other core remit of these governors that we’re supporting in the democracy work is how can they address those affordability concerns? How can they address utility rates that keep going up and up? How can they help address things like oil prices? What are other ways that they can meet those needs? So tariffs are one piece of that, but there’s a whole other suite around affordability, and housing, and the bread and butter of how government’s supposed to work for people that is also central.

Simon Rosenberg:
So, how do you think it’s going? I mean, you’re a couple of years into this now. It’s an innovative and interesting, challenging project at a challenging time. I mean, what’s your assessment, Julia? We discussed earlier at the beginning that… I love the way you talk about it… that we have to find ways to band together in more effective ways. You know, is this working? Are you happy with what you’ve been able to do? And what’s in front of you? What are you thinking about in terms of what you may do next?

Julia Spiegel:
Well, Simon, ultimately, I want your analysis, [both laugh] but I’m happy to start with mine. For whatever reason, the analogy that’s been sticking with me is thinking about building a greenhouse. I think a lot of people like to talk about cross pollination, like that’s a good thing to have. But that doesn’t happen just by throwing out some seeds and hoping that things grow. It happens by building, you know, in this analogy of mine, a greenhouse, right, where you can actually cultivate that cross pollination. Where you have the fertilizer and the essential ingredients and the expertise that’s brought to bear, and then suddenly you see things blossom.

And so in my view, I’m just so proud to be able to support this wide swath of governors in a nonpartisan way that is able to really focus on these core fundamental freedoms… and making sure that they’re making a difference in people’s lives on public health, on reproductive rights, on democracy and more. So I couldn’t be prouder of the architecture that these governors and their teams have built and to be able to support it. I do think we have our work cut out for us. And that each day… I mean, Simon, you cover it each day… there are more and more issues to try and keep abreast of and to figure out how to respond… these governors have to be on top of every single one of those things. In addition to the bread and butter of government and meeting the needs of their constituents.

So it’s a lot, and it’s coming fast and furious, but we’re excited that we have the apparatus in place.

Simon Rosenberg:
I think it’s really important the way that you just described this because there’s a sentiment in our family that they wish more was happening, and that the opposition was stronger, and that I think we’ve had success electorally and politically, but we’ve had much less success in blocking the harms that he’s doing to the country. I think there’s a lot of frustration about that. One of the things we’ve done is that we’ve showcased the work of the attorneys general, the Democratic attorneys general, who meet, as you know, several times a week and have been coordinating since even before Trump was nominated. And they’ve had wild success. This is another example of the way that people have come together very successfully and leveraged the power of what I call the free states, not the blue states, but the free states, to combat what Trump is doing. But this is a whole other layer that you’re helping build.

And what I was getting at is that I think that people don’t really understand that this is all new to everybody. This is brand new. And we are learning our way through this. And the most critical thing is that we have to learn and get stronger and more powerful and more effective. There has to be an understanding of things that we try and we learn from those. The truth is some of your governors have been the most incredible leaders. I love what Gavin did in Davos the last few days. And as you know, Gavin has as I call it a high risk tolerance, right? He’s very willing to take risks. And JB Pritzker has been incredible in his spirited leadership. My hope and my vision, and what I’ve been writing about, is that we get to a place….. one of the things we’re learning in combating Trump at the governing level, what we don’t have….. if we were in a parliamentary system there would have been a formal opposition. There would be a shadow prime minister and a shadow foreign minister, and they would be in the government. I mean, this would be part of the government itself. We don’t have anything like that in our system.

And so what’s happened is that we don’t have a unified opposition in America. We have states doing their own thing and attorneys general doing their thing. House and Senate are doing their thing.

I hope that by helping create this conversation, to partner with folks like you, Julia, and the governors, is that we can start to have the governors and the Congress and the big city mayors actually start coordinating on a handful of things that are sort of the most important things for the country. Where they draw a red line and they band together to create more power.

I think one of the reasons that we haven’t been able to stop the harms from Trump is that we don’t have an adequate amount of power yet. And we will have more if we do well in the elections, but we have a year before that takes place and we can’t wait. We need to be creative about accruing more power in order to be more effective, I think, in stopping the harms that he’s doing and to not accept that we’re going to have another year of him just being the wrecking ball that he is to our society. So we need to start really holding up, as we’re doing today, the incredible work of people who are trying to solve against this. To create more power for us at a time of unprecedented challenge for the country, for our democracy, for federalism itself. Right?

And so, just from where I sit, one of the reasons I want to have you on is I’m really excited about what you’re doing and really grateful for the work you’re doing. And we want to be supportive in any way we can here. Obviously we’re something very different than a (c)(3) institution, but you know this is great, and thank you for the for the update. And I hope that you’ll come back. If there are things you want to come talk to us about just reach out. And I’ll let you have the final word. As you look ahead to 2026, is there anything else that is really important to you, or that you’re thinking about, or that you want to get done now, as we start hurtling further into what’s going to be a tough year I think

Julia Spiegel:
Well, Simon, your leadership has been instrumental, I think, in keeping hope going and building this community. And what I want to offer is that these governors are not waiting. I really do feel and believe that they are the antidote to the coercion and the chaos and the confusion. And they are fighting every day just by standing up for the Constitution and fulfilling their duties and mandates. And then locking arms with each other. That is an act of standing up for this country every day. They’re not waiting for more things to unfold or for more circumstances to change. They are in those trenches each and every day. And so I hope that’s heartening to your community. I hope that is something that gives people a sense of what is really happening at the state and local level and how much more we can build from in this moment.

So thank you for the opportunity to share about it. And I would love to come back on to update you as more developments unfold.

Simon Rosenberg:
Julia, thank you. And thank you for your leadership and your vision. Herding cats, as we say, is not the easiest thing in our business. As somebody who ran a think tank and worked with directly with politicians for many years, you know… keeping the team together in this business is hard work. You guys have accomplished a lot in a very short period of time. And I’m just really grateful for it.

Julia Spiegel:
Well, I’m proud to be in the company of those cats that were herding. [Simon laughs.] Thank you.

Simon Rosenberg:
Okay, everybody. Thank you Julia. Listen, if you liked this today, hit like, subscribe to Hopium, become part of this community, share this video with others that you think would benefit from seeing it.

The way I talk about this is that we’re in the second year now in what I think is a 10-year challenge, you know, 10-year project to defeat MAGA and to restore freedom and democracy here and everywhere. There are learnings that we’re having collectively. And one of them is that, like the Europeans just did, we have to figure out how to come together and band together more effectively. Because as that whole line is, we’re going to hang together or hang separately. And so you just heard a great example of something that I think has not gotten a lot of attention, but is a really important piece of what we need to do.

So thanks everyone. Keep fighting.